Metal Family at ArtWave 2019
Expect a lot of BOX 37 questions.
Thanks, have a fun read — rat.
Beginning ("we're worthless bastards")
[The recording starts mid-speech, with Alina and Dima talking about starting your own series]
Alina: … a small studio, and you get this incredible idea in your head. And how you can do it with these minimal conditions.
Dima: Yeah, because people always have a lot of ideas. There’s always comments like: “Guys, I have so many ideas! I’m gonna tell you about what you should draw!”.
Alina: But generally everyone gives up at the drawing part. So now we’ll try to sort everything out. Again, I wanna repeat, this isn’t a Disney or Pixar master class, where animators with 30 years of experience will teach you stuff. We’re simply sharing our experiences. So everything we say isn’t some panacea, it’s just something that helped us personally.
Dima: We’re worthless bastards, we can’t do anything. We’ll just share our experiences and tell you how WE did it, and not how you’re SUPPOSED to do it.
Alina: [laughs] Yeah. Possibly, we did everything wrong. So take notes.
Popularity and parodies
Host: Well, I don’t think a project that was done wrongfully would have so many fans and crazy popularity. Were you expecting that when you just started your project?
Alina: Honestly, I expected around 2k subscribers in our group. I thought that’d be the cap. But yeah, there’s a bit more of them… It’s a pleasant surprise. Anyway, we really didn’t expect that, because it’s [the show] a very ‘local’ thing. Actually, I was planning to talk about it a bit later, but whatever.
Roughly speaking, there’s 2 types of projects. The first one is parodies. Similarly, again, to something like Batmetal, which was made by Dima and Zhenya [aka Blin, the voice of Glam and Dee], as ArhyBES. What’s the main characteristic of parodies? You, to a large extent, make a cartoon about characters that everyone already knows. I think everyone from birth knows who Batman is, wouldn’t you agree?
… Oh look, there’s a balloon with a motorcycle there! [happily points at the crowd] Sorry, I’m easily distracted… What was I talking about? Oh yeah.
You can make a project about characters that are known by everyone and it’ll be a parody. And honestly, it’s a fairly beneficial start, because you could avoid the tough stage of introducing your viewer to a character that no one knows. And it’s very hard, because the viewer needs time to fully love and feel the character. If you use premade characters like Batman or Joker, etc, it makes the task a lot easier.
I’m saying that because we didn’t expect people to get interested in Metal Family at all. Metal Family is a project where the characters are unknown to everyone.
Host: I think that’s what makes the project more interesting, because the characters were really loved by everyone and they truly gained a lot of fans, as you can see by the front seats. [I’m guessing there were fans/cosplayers sitting in the front seats]
Another Host: But somehow we still haven’t seen Glam.
Alina: Yeah. Abandoned.
How it all started
Host: Originally you made the music video of the song “The Story Ain’t Over”. Were you already planning to make the series by then, or was it something that spawned after the music video?
Alina: [checks her notes] We wrote down every part of this seminar on paper, but it’s fine. We can adjust.
Host: If you have a plan it’ll always go wrong.
Alina: It’s ok, it’s ok. [to Dima] I’ll adjust.
Anyway, about the music video. You know, I’m just gonna explain everything from the very beginning, ok? From where this idea even came from. The idea came to us around... 4 years ago?
Dima: In 2013.
Alina: Me and Dima both had jobs and we were once returning from said jobs. We both are animators by the way, I do 3D and Dima does 2D for 10 years already, so he’s quite experienced.
Dima: I’m the lead animator of the studio Red MEDUSA. [animation studio in Russia, Moscow]
Alina: [mockingly] Wooow, ‘lead animator’.
Dima: [slyly] LEAD.
Alina: Anyway, due to our professional deformation we tend to talk about things like “huhuh, wouldn’t it be cool to make a cartoon like this…”. We’re animators, as you know, so we don’t think of anything else. So with that, 4 years ago, me and Dima were riding a bus and, at the time, we had a very romantic lovey-dovey period, with flowers and everything. It’s all gone now. [laughs at Dima] I’m joking.
Dima: Damn. [they both laugh]
Alina: Anyway, we… oh great, I sneezed into the mic. [they laugh again]
OK. We were riding the bus and one of us — I don’t even remember who — suddenly had an idea: “Hey, imagine, like… a family where everyone listens to metal. Like, total metalheads, huh-huh-huh”. And we both had this goofy mood and supported each other’s ideas: “Yeah, yeah, they listen to metal. And each member of the family characterizes some type of subgenre of metal”. And that's how this whole topic started developing. When we got home and made the first sketch… [to Dima] Show the first sketch.
First sketches
Dima: [shows pc screen] Which one?
[They both have troubles with the files for a bit while laughing hysterically, then finally open the right one]
Alina: There. Please clap for us, we did it. [the crowd applauses]
Anyway, this was the very first sketch of Metal Family. You see the level, right? [as in ‘how terrible it is’] So don’t ever feel shy if you think your art sucks. See? We show it on a big screen and all. When we first created it we already had characters written out. As you can see we planned to add more kids. We had a girl who, we thought, would listen to alternative metal, something like SOAD.
Dima: Nu-metal.
Alina: Heavy was this ugly dude. [to Dima] Show him with the cursor. Originally it was Heavy.
Dima: [confused] Where the hell is the cursor? I don’t understand anything. [draws around Heavy’s head] There he is.
Alina: [laughs] Yeah, originally this ugly dude was Heavy.
That cutie [black-haired boy] was a dude who listens to death metal. He was all cold and mysterious, impenetrable. Well, later he turned into Dee, of course.
And, of course, the mom and dad looked like this.
Originally, when we were first creating it… I wanna say again that this idea was developing for 4 years, so don’t be afraid if you come up with something and think: “Oh god, it’s been a month and I haven’t drawn anything yet”. Guys, 4 years. We were developing these characters for 4 years.
Originally, Victoria was more sexy and Glam was a total comic-relief. He characterized the glam metal genre.
[to the host] Does this pc have wi-fi? If only we could show you Twisted Sister. I forgot to download it.
[to the crowd] Does anyone know Twister Sister? [the crowd raises hands] Ohhhh, y'all metalheads in here, awesome.
Anyway, Glam originated from Dee Snider. [to Dima] Show that thing.
[Dima opens the pic]
There. Glam was originally like this, more… How’s it called?
Dima: Glamourous.
Alina: Glamorous, provocative dude. He always wore stuff like this, with feathers and all. He wore lipstick. Basically, like glam metalists. And our very first animatic, that we drew a month after coming up with the idea, was a lot more different from the one you might’ve seen on youtube. It was a much more comical project in general. [to Dima] Should we show it? Probably not yet.
Dima: Well, we can show this...
Alina: Yeah. Oh god, again. [having troubles with the files again, talks while it's getting sorted out]
What I also wanted to say is, sometimes you can watch something, like Gravity Falls or some other cool project, and the first thing you want is to run and draw your own cartoon…
[technical issue sorted out, talks about Glam in the picture]
Yeah, this is how Glam changed. After we came up with this music video idea, I was making it for a year in my free time after work and all. Dima was doing Batmetal with Zhenya at the time. And for that whole year Glam looked like this one from 2013.
All that time though, me and Dima continued to discuss the characters of Metal Family and they kept constantly developing. And one day I found the strength to tell Dima: “We’re remaking the whole animatic” and I deleted absolutely EVERYTHING that I’ve made, because I knew that I wanted to change the looks of the characters.
I’m telling this because you shouldn’t be scared if you think “oh man, it’s all wrong, but we’ve already done so much…”. Guys, I made this poor video for a year. Every day after work I drew the scenes, alone. So if even I could understand that if I continue this — it won’t become what I wanted, then don’t be scared to delete everything and draw what you actually like.
There, that was a little lyrical digression. Honestly, it’s an advice that I give all the time. Don’t be scared to delete everything and start over. Because if you continue to do something that you don’t really like anymore, it’ll most definitely turn out badly.
Character development
Alina: [to Dima] I guess since I told them about how we made the music video, I should also talk about the development of the characters. Glam, as I said, was comic-relief. Every single day we would talk with Dima on this topic, and it looked somewhat like this…
Dima: [continues her thought] For example, we would ride the bus — which is the place most ideas were born in — and some asshole, without a care in the world, would turn on the music on his phone very loudly, thinking everyone loves his stupid music. And so we sit there and think "what we would do to this person?".
Of course, we asked him nicely and he actually turned it off — all good. But there are people who wouldn’t turn it off, thinking they’re geniuses or something. And so this thought springs out: “how would the characters of Metal Family act with this bastard?”.
Basically, all scenarios are born from this: if the characters are developed enough, then the scenes literally write themselves. [to Alina] How would Victoria, for example, act towards this man with a phone?
Alina: Honestly, it’d depend on her mood. Victoria is such a hoodlum that, if it was Metallica or something, she’d just join him and listen. [Dima laughs]
I also wanna talk about the best way to form your characters, like how we’ve done it. If one day you’d decide to create your own project — and by project I mean a whole series, not just a quick animation — you’d need to plan it very thoroughly. Sorry about the ‘P’ sound, I can’t do much about it. [the mic was peaking]
Roughly speaking, like, VERY roughly speaking, there’s 2 types of stories.
The first is when all events revolve around the story itself. For example, there’s been a rebellion in the city, and all of the characters that exist there would revolve around that story, and the story will form based on these events.
The second is when the story is formed around the characters, when the characters themselves are catalysts of this story.
Me and Dima chose the second option, where the characters are the main focus. Of course, in that сase, they need to be precise and well-developed.
The first mistake that absolutely every beginner creator makes is creating ‘perfect’ characters. Well, for example, let’s say I’m this girlie girl [gets into character, all soft and cutesy], and I want my character to be this tall blonde guy with blue eyes, who is very smart, very pretty and caring… what else? And physically strong. Ok, I’ve made a character. Oh yeah, he also needs a flaw, right? Let’s say… He’s too sensitive. Guys… this isn’t serious. [laughs] If you’re making characters, you need to be very honest with them.
Firstly, it’s very important to give the character flaws. Serious flaws. Because flaws like “he’s very sensitive, he was abandoned, and he’s very troubled by it” or “he’s too strong” are not right. A flaw is when he’s this tall blonde guy, but... he sometimes picks his nose. That’s a flaw. You need to be honest with yourself and think about flaws that are unpleasant to you personally.
Of course it could scare someone off, like “what if the viewer wouldn’t want to watch a dude who picks his nose, or a dude who is too greedy”, but no, that’s a big mistake. People like flaws, they make characters a lot more deep.
Dima: And alive.
Alina: And alive, yeah. And it won’t in any way repel fans from them.
Character flaws
Dima: And now about the actual characters of Metal Family and their flaws. If we were to take them and put them in here [the conference], no one would wanna have anything in common with them.
If we take Victoria, she’s a total hoodlum.
Alina: [gets distracted for a sec, then says to Dima] Sorry, I’ll stop you for a sec. We weren’t afraid to give the characters flaws that were unpleasant to us personally, it’s VERY important.
Dima: If you asked me which member of the Metal Family I’d want to be friends with, I’d probably say Heavy. Just Heavy.
Alina: Yeah, I wouldn’t wanna meet any of these bastards in my life. They’re total douchebags. Really.
Dima: C’mon, why would you say that?
Alina: OK, OK, not douchebags. [Dima laughs]
[Someone in the crowd says something to Alina]
Alina: Who are you talking about? Oh, Ches? Yeah, sorry - all of them, except Ches. Ches is perfect. [everyone laughs]
Host: [to Alina] Between love and hate towards your own children.
Alina: No, no, I still love them. Heaven forbid we’d meet in real life though.
Dima: Ches also has flaws.
Alina: [to Dima] Don’t spoil stuff.
Dima: His flaw is that he's very... irresponsible, let’s say.
Alina: Well, yeah. He’s a true [in Ches’ voice] ‘hippie’.
We can pretty much review each of the characters’ flaws. We gave them their flaws very purposefully.
For example we have Dee. What are his flaws? [points to Dima]
Dima: Let’s start with Victoria instead, because her flaws are pretty simple. She’s not very smart. She’s aggressive, which is a serious flaw.
Alina: She uses physical force against everyone. [giggles]
Dima: [looks at notes and says to Alina] About Glam you even wrote some things out.
Alina: Yeah, but I don’t remember where.
Dima: [laughs] Glam is definitely not stupid, he’s really smart. But, in a domestic sense, he… - or how should I say it better?
Alina: It’s when it comes to life stuff. Romance goes completely to the negative.
Dima: He’s completely callous towards people.
The burning kitten
Alina: Me and Dima viewed these through an example. Let’s say there’s a character and before them there’s, god forbid, a kitten on fire. Literally on fire. How would each character act in that situation?
Heavy would run to save the kitten even if it’ll completely burn his hands, because Heavy is a cute, kind and sweet character.
Dima: Again though, his flaw is that he’s too gullible.
Alina: How would Victoria react? Victoria, if Heavy asked her, would probably run to save it, cursing all the while. Because even though she’s not very smart, she’s still, deep in her heart, a very kind and sympathetic person.
These two blondes though… it’s scary.
Dima: Glam would act horribly. He’d totally stare at the burning kitten [makes a creepy smile, imitating Glam] and turn his head from time to time, looking at this spectacle. Analyzing it.
Alina: He wouldn’t care. Absolutely. And Dee would probably be the cause of the burning kitten. [laughs]
[A quick note about Dee. In an interview from june 2020, they clarified that being ‘the cause’ of a burning kitten isn’t the same as ‘setting it on fire’. They said that Dee isn’t an animal abuser and doesn’t ‘set kittens on fire in his free time’. He wouldn’t get enjoyment out of it, and would most likely just look away in disgust at the sight. He’d only do it for the sake of some experiment, not for the sake of violence.]
Host: Somehow now I’m kinda scared of that kid, maybe I’ll take off the pin. [a pin with Dee]
Alina: No no, leave it. He’s very cute.
Host: What if he’ll set me on fire?
Alina: Nah nah nah, it’s fine. [Alina and Dima laugh]
Host: I’m not a poker box, please, I’m not a poker box… [crowd laughs]
Alina: I also wanna talk a little about developing characters and how much time we spent on this story. Overall it took 4 years, and for 2 of them, or even 3, Dee didn’t exist at all. We had Glam, Victoria and their son Heavy. Heavy was a bit more adequate than now and older too. And all that time we were coming up with these stories and we felt like we were missing something. And at one point we realized that we needed another character. Maybe another son? And then it hit us immediately, almost like Dee was sitting somewhere in the back of our minds, waiting for us to finally figure out we needed him as a character. And as soon as we realized we needed another son, we instantly came up with him, his design, clothes, personality — it was perfect.
Dima: Yeah, he just appeared like that.
Host: I think Dee is still a bit more ‘alive’ than Glam…
Dima: For now.
Host: In the episode with the quest he was playing this ‘Lich king’ with Heavy.
Dima: Yeah, he’s just too young for now.
Alina: He’ll grow up into a bastard, don’t worry. [they both laugh]
More sketches and planning
Host: Speaking of the deepness of the story, in your informative video you told that Metal Family is a thought-out project. Does this mean the whole script is fully finished?
Alina: Yup, until the very end. Sorry, I digressed a bit from the topic because my plan got ruined and it’s a critical situation. I’m trying my best to hold on.
Originally there was a question about if we came up with the story before the music video or after it. I’ll answer it. From the start, when we created that horrible drawing… [to Dima] by the way, we could show some more pictures. [they open the pic]
Alina: This sexy lady is Victoria, she had short hair. [to Dima] Show something else. Like that Dee prototype sitting down with a bunch of girls. [they open the pic]
[Dima opens up another pic while Alina is talking]
Alina: About the music video. Before we even thought of that whole situation, we realized that it needed to be a series. Because it’s hard to fully realize the characters in a single short film. Naturally, we’re workers, meaning we go to work 5 days a week. We don’t have rich parents that would provide us with everything, so we have to work. So of course making a series is ‘jokes’ to everyone.
3 years ago, when we were sitting at a bar, I told my friends: “Guys, I have this idea, I wanna make a series!”, and they were like: [mockingly] “Haha, good for you. Go ahead. Good luck.”. [laughing] Well, at least I made 6 episodes so far.
Host: And where are these friends now?
Alina: Well… [examines the crowd but doesn’t find anyone] they were supposed to come today… [laughing hysterically]
Host: If you’re in the crowd, please raise your hands!
Alina: [while laughing] No, no! Don’t embarrass yourselves. They probably didn’t even come. It’s fine. [points at the crowd while laughing] There, my sister came. Okay, let’s close this tearjerker of a topic…
Anyway, we immediately realized that it had to be a series.
Dima: And we started planning how to introduce it.
Alina: Yeah, like I said earlier, it’s really hard to make the viewers instantly love the characters.
Dima: Perhaps if we’d started the series with the actual first episode, people wouldn’t be interested. That’s why the music video was also planned.
Alina: Yeah, that was a planned action, and we chose a fairly popular theme — a love story, because most people enjoy love stories. In addition, we made it not too ‘girly’ so men can also enjoy it.
Dima: Primarily, we made what we enjoyed. We showed the beginning of the story, how it all started, how they got together. And because we already had experience in making music videos, we decided to use this safe option.
Alina: So yeah, the video was totally a strategy, a planned action. But of course we still didn’t expect much, because… because. That’s it.
Honestly I’m still very shocked. Because it’s not the most popular topic, and our characters are by no means attractive. We were really surprised people liked it. Victoria, especially. Because she’s quite a rude lady, and it was funny to see people go: “Omg, Victoria, she’s totally me!”... Well, they don’t know what they’re saying yet. They’ll regret their words. [laughs]
Host: I think each one of us has a little bit of every character inside.
Alina: Definitely.
Seasons, episodes and sponsors
Host: So if everything, as you say, is written out already, how many seasons, episodes could we expect?
Alina: Yeah, we’ve written everything out. Sadly it’s all a matter of timing, we can’t afford to make more. We’re planning around 3 seasons, each with 10 episodes at least. So if by some crazy chance we’ll get an adequate sponsor, who won’t take away the rights and demand some useless stories from us…
Actually, a lot of people write to us: “Guys, sell it to some channel!”... [shakes head] Guys, it’s not that easy. If we sell it to someone, it won’t be Metal Family anymore, I guarantee you. It’d be some stretched-out, unclear story and this channel would most likely take the rights and dictate the story how they want. The 3 seasons that we’d planned won’t be realized. It’s just something that got me pent up, so I had to say it.
But yeah, 3 seasons with 10 episodes each, that’s the minimal set.
Host: Obviously now, since there were already 6 episodes released, the viewers probably have a lot of questions. Let’s not ask about when the 7th one’s coming out.
Alina: And not about what’s in the box. [she’s talking about the box 37 from episode 5]
Host: Perhaps there’s some story secrets that you could tell us about right now? Like a synopsys.
Alina: No, sorry, we won’t say anything. [laughs]
I think for now we can proceed to the technical part of the creation. [to Dima] Could you also talk sometimes?
Dima: I could, but you won’t shut up. [laughs]
Alina: Oops, sorry.
The technical part
Dima: OK, the technical part. How we usually do it is...
Alina: [interrupts him and talks anyway] Right now we just want to share how we created the 3rd episode, from start to finish. Of course, some parts we won’t show.
[looks at crowd] Oh, I finally see my friends! 3 of them. Great. That’s all. OH WAIT, were they the ones standing with a motorcycle? [laughs] Damn, ok. Continue. [Dima laughs] Sorry.
So, how was the 3rd episode created? Me and Dima are sitting at home, eating and drinking something, watching StopHam [a Russian public movement dealing with rude drivers who violate traffic rules] and commenting on it. At some moment we think “Hey, how do you think the characters of Metal Family would act in this situation?”.
I’ll digress a bit more, but I wanna add something about developing your characters. It’s very useful to do kind of a “drive test” with your characters. You take an absolutely random life situation and imagine your character in it. Without overstepping certain boundaries, your characters will have to act in some sort of way. This way you not only test how developed your characters are, but possibly also come up with some events for a story. Ok, continuing…
Character "drive-test"
Dima: So, how would the characters react if someone comes up to them on the street and says: “Stop smoking” or “Put your cigarette out”?
Alina: We started placing each character in this situation.
The first one was, for example, Glam. It’d be a short story, because Glam, essentially, wouldn’t get in this situation. Firstly because he doesn’t smoke, secondly because he’s too smart, he’d identify these bullies and wouldn’t allow this situation to happen.
The same could be said about Dee.
Heavy would totally get caught, but he’d probably get scared and drop the cigarette, even though Heavy doesn’t smoke… but you get the point.
Out of all the characters, Victoria is the most interesting, because there’s more flaws concentrated inside her, she’s very emotional. Obviously, we thought, she wouldn’t let these guys off. She’d totally start hassling them. And it’d probably end in a prison or something. Well, maybe not prison, but a detention facility. She’d either beat them up or get beat up herself, who knows.
Dima: Victoria would get in trouble either way. But it’d be even more interesting if someone would accompany her, someone from the family. If Glam would be with her, he would, again, neutralize everything.
Alina: He’s a boring character in that regard.
Dima: Yeah, he’s too smart so he’d make sure the conflict wouldn't happen. If Heavy would be with her, the conflict would probably double.
Alina: Yeah, it’d be even more scary. It’d be a sad episode.
Dima: With Dee it's a bit more interesting.
Alina: He’s still a kid so he wouldn’t explicitly tell his mom how to live, but he’s still smart enough to know how to exhaust this conflict.
Basically, we’ve chosen a duo of Dee and Victoria and that’s how it all started. Me and Dima discussed the script shortly, wrote it down, which is very important — always write down your ideas because they can be useful to you in the future.
Dima: Yup. Almost all stories of Metal Family were thought of and written out on our way home in the bus or a metro. The most important thing is to write down your ideas as detailed as possible, because you might look at it again after a week and think “what the hell was I trying to say?”.
Alina: So yeah, we wrote it down in short, very summarized: “Victoria meets StopHam and ends up at the police station”, and that was the story. And after some time we returned to it and decided to make an animatic.
[From here on in the video, Alina and Dima go into detail about how they planned the scenes of the storyboard, the animatic, dialogues and animation. I won’t translate this part because it doesn’t work without the visuals. If you’re curious to see the whole process raw, then here’s the timestamp with the video linked: 33:30 - 47:25]
Q&A
Host: If you don’t mind, would it be ok to hear some questions from the audience?
Alina: Yup.
Q: Guys, thank you so much for this great series! My question is this: since the series was drawn with a few episodes ahead, why didn’t you edit a few scenes into an intro of some sort?
Alina: Honestly, we didn’t have that much extra material. The way we’ve done it is by looking at how well the music video did, seeing the positive comments… but honestly we’d continue even if those comments weren’t positive.
I took a 3 month break from work, which the administration almost killed me for, and in those 3 months I’ve made 4 episodes. We started uploading them with a 2 week gap, exclusively because we thought that in that time we’d gather some type of audience.
We understood that after the release of all 4 episodes we’d have a 2 month break, that’s why we didn’t really have that much extra material to make some sort of trailer. I’d love to, I really love trailers. I honestly always dreamed of making a cool trailer for one of my series, and to do that you need to have a pretty big base and some key moments, but you don’t always have time for those. When I was uploading the 4th episode I was drawing the 5th one in terror, trying to finish it in 2 weeks. We just didn’t have enough material.
Q: And another question. What was in the box?
[everyone laughs]
Host: This is a prohibited topic, we already asked.
Q: Hello. I really admire your hard work, you stole my heart. The thing is, I noticed that in the 2nd episode when Dee is helping his classmate pass the exam, the question was numbered 37. Does it have anything to do with the box?
Alina: [whispers to Dima] Should we make something up?
Dima: No. [laughs]
Alina: [to Dima] Tell them as it is? [laughs]
Host: What a twist…
Dima: I’m not gonna say anything.
Alina: [repeats] We’re not gonna say anything. [laughs] Sorry. It’s best to not say anything for now.
Q: Hi. Could you please tell if there is some way to motivate yourself, maybe an organized plan that would help you not go crazy during animating? Or advice?
Alina: Honestly, it’s very hard to not go crazy drawing your own cartoon. Perhaps we’ve already gone insane, so…
Dima: [in a crazy voice] I’m insane! Muh-muh-muh-muh! [laughs]
Alina: The best method is to let your project pass a certain test of time. When it’s not a spontaneous project that you suddenly got inspired for, but one that you slept with for 3 years now and you’re absolutely sure that you can’t NOT make it.
A more practical advice would be to get sincere support from your family and friends. What better motivator could there be? Or not sincere support. Maybe they’ll be good at pretending, which works too. [laughs]
Q: What about laziness?
Alina: I’ll answer this a bit harshly, sorry. Very often I see questions in different groups like: “how do I force myself to draw?”. Dude, if you force yourself to draw, maybe it’s best to not draw at all. You just can’t live without drawing - that’s true. Me and Dima can’t NOT do this project, so there’s basically no laziness. There, sorry for such a direct answer.
Q: In the quest episode Heavy gets mistaken for a girl. Does it have to do something with how he was developed?
Alina: Actually, when we were developing Heavy we thought: “damn, everyone’s gonna mistake him for a girl”, because he is cute, he’s still small, has long hair - no questions about it. And truly, it’s something that actually happened when we released ‘The Story Ain’t Over’, and after the first episode where Heavy spoke with a boyish voice, telling his dad there’s trouble at school. A lot of comments were like: “Damn, I thought it was a girl… Make it a girl, guys, before it’s too late! A girl is way cooler!”. [in an angry voice] We’re not gonna make a girl from Heavy, guys. Don’t ask.
Dima: There was a wonderful comment: “C’mon, before it’s too late! Only 2 episodes were released, just redo it, make him a girl!”
Alina: And it was totally serious.
Dima: “Just redo everything and reupload it!”
Alina: “It’d be cooler for the plot!” [annoyed] Oh, whatever. It’s a sore subject. [Dima facepalms and laughs]
But yeah, in that 6th episode, we initially thought people would mix him up with a girl, so it was somewhat of a reference to the viewers. Even in the universe of the show Heavy is mistaken for a girl.
Q: Why is it ‘box 37’?
Alina: [pauses to breathe] Ok, I get it...
[looks at the crowd, notices some balloons with ‘37’ on them] OHHH, 37, I get it now! [laughs] I’m talking about those balloons. At first I looked at them and thought: “That’s weird, I’m 27, I guess they made a mistake”. [laughs awkwardly]
Dima: [to Alina] Who’s 27?
Alina: [all shy] N-no one. [giggle] I’m 18, by the way. Well, again… I don’t think we’ll answer that question.
Dima: It’s just not right yet. There’s a time for everything, as they say.
Alina: Just wait a couple of years, guys, we’ll finish by then. [Dima laughs]
Q: I have a question relatied to the practical part. As I understood, you work as animators, which means you had a concomitant education in the sphere of animation. Right now I study at an unrelated art institution and I wanted to ask: is it possible for someone like me, who just draws, to learn animation on my own or by attending courses, or is it impossible without a proper education?
Alina: Dima will answer this question.
Dima: Yeah, I’ll give a pretty detailed answer.
I’m a plasterer and a plaster moldings restorer by training. I also worked as a handyman at a construction site, as a delivery man, who else? I cleaned shit and stuff. [they laugh] In our animation studio we also have people who work as: an engineer, signalman… who else?
Alina: Sasha the architect.
Dima: An architect. I mean, we have it pretty rough in general here [in Russia] with education, regarding animation. That’s why, generally, a lot of people join animation without proper training.
That’s why it’s totally normal if you don’t have the education but you’re really drawn to it, and you can do it at home. I, personally, am self-taught, from start to finish. I never studied anywhere, they didn’t let me into VGIK [Russian institution of cinematography], booted me out of there.
[the crowd laughs]
Dima: So yeah, what can I say? Self-taught people rule. If you have the desire and patience for it, that’s the most important thing.
Q: Then I also wanted to ask. Could you recommend some books on this topic?
Dima: [in a funny voice] Practice is our best friend!
Alina: Honestly, he’s telling the absolute truth. No books are an indication of a good animator. In our medium we talk a lot about this stuff, and people usually say: “I’ve read a book on animation, I know the 12 principles of Disney…”, that doesn’t mean you’ll be able to animate something.
The only way to become a good animator is to not be scared and try to practice, make total garbage - it’s absolutely normal. If I could I’d show you my very first cartoon because it was terrible. [they laugh]
Dima: The best way to grow as an animator is to do something at home, at least something. Build up some kind of portfolio and apply to any studio so you could actually work there. When you work at a studio there’s always someone more experienced there who will give you good advice during practice. That’s the best education. It’s better than reading 10 or 20 books.
Because, for example, once there was a guy who applied to our studio, he didn’t know I was the lead animator. He asked me: “Have you been working here a long time?”, “Yeah.”, “Do you know the 12 principles of animation?”, “No.”, “Hahaha, you work as an animator and don’t know 12 principles of animation?! Loser! The first principle...”, so then he started explaining these principles and I go: “Those are really trivial things though. Why would you need to know how you walk, when you just simply walk? You don’t lift one of your legs, then put it down, then lift the other… Why do you need to know that? It’s unnecessary”.
Alina: Well, Dima just showed-off how much of a gifted animator he is, that he doesn’t even need to learn anything. [laughs]
Dima: Nah, I’m a loser. It’s the truth. [laughs]
Alina: But yeah, if there was a choice to take a book and read the 12 principles of animation, or just make an actual cartoon - I’d choose the latter. Even if it’d turn out bad, it’s fine. We all start with something.
And if you have the balls to upload it to youtube, read all the negative comments about you being awful, and not give up - then you’re definitely an animator from God, it’s your thing. Actually youtube is the most scary place in the universe. I didn’t know that before the 2nd episode. [laughs]
Q: Hello, I wanted to ask. How do you feel about your project being translated to different languages?
Alina: Very positively. We write them: “Dudes, why aren’t you dubbing them instead of subbing, are you too lazy?”, like really.
We sometimes get messages from people, like Spanish and Polish: “Guys, is it ok if we reupload your videos on our channel with our subs?”. We’re all for it! They can’t monetize them anyway... because neither can we. [laughs] That’s why they can’t get money from it, but can make it more popular. So we’re all for it. If they dub it in another language it’d be even better. So yeah, we’re kind in that regard.
Q: Do you have some sort of ‘character cards’ where you write down their statuses, descriptions, personalities, so the character wouldn’t change in the process?
Alina: To be honest, if we were a big organization, then we’d definitely need to have a ‘pitch bible’, which is a huge manual with written out personalities of each character, locations, etc. It’s done so if you have a big amount of workers, everyone can have this visual aid. But because there’s only 2 of us, we don’t really need it, because we keep it in our heads anyway.
And sometimes we want to slap ourselves on the hands, because we’d want, roughly speaking, Glam to give Victoria some gift on her birthday and say “I love you, dear”... But we understand that, no, this maniac would never say that. Instead he’d just say “I love you :)” and that’s it.
[a note by rat: I’m not sure if by that Alina meant Glam wouldn’t even give her a gift, or that he just wouldn’t call her ‘dear’. It’s kinda unclear.]
Dima: What a dick. [laughs]
Alina: So yeah, we keep all of these character boundaries and disallow ourselves to go past them. It’s very important.
Host: [looking for people in the crowd] Any other questions?
Alina: Well, since you can’t ask about the box, no one wants anymore. [laughs]
Q: But when will we learn the box’s secret? At the end of the third season?
Alina: No, honestly I can say that it will be revealed in the 9th and 10th episode.
Q: My question isn’t about the box… though at the same time it kinda is. Does the poker box relate to the box?
Alina: No it doesn’t.
Q: So we won’t see poker anymore?
Dima: Poker’s been burned. Because they can’t play it. [laughs]
Host: “Kids, start the fire”.
Q: Where can we find merch?
Alina: Oh right we forgot to say, freaking managers. [in a commercial voice] If you want to support our project, you can purchase pins with the character at the info stand. It’s right behind you all, close to the glass pillar. [points behind the crowd] That’s it.
Q: I have kind of a romantic question. In the 6th episode there was an emo girl who Dee noticed. Is it a secret love interest or do they just know each other?
Alina: As always, we’re masters at answering questions, so...
Host: The shippers have arrived.
Alina: Well… maybe she’ll appear in the future… But only in the second season, sadly. [crowd awes] Yeah, sorry ladies. We really want to reveal her as soon as possible, but there’s always time for everything.
See? We slap our own hands again.
Q: I wanted to ask a question about cartoons in general. All my childhood I’ve watched classical Disney cartoons which used this exact manual work, by which I mean they were drawn by hand. Do you, as animators, think this type of animation has any kind of future, maybe the return of it or a new spark of interest?
Alina: Honestly, even though I love Russia, it’s really old school when it comes to cartoons. Right now in our commercial industry — and I’ll only take commercial, because artfilms already widely use hand drawn animation - 3D is in the lead, and we generally only have 3D cartoons.
But if you pay attention to western cartoons, most of their series like The Loud House, Gravity Falls, Rick and Morty, Star vs The Forces of Evil, Steven Universe etc - it’s all frame-by-frame animation, just simplified.
Sadly, in Russia they didn’t yet understand that it’s a popular thing, and I’m almost sure that in about 3 years there will be a huge boom or these types of series in Russia, that’s why it definitely won’t go anywhere. Simply because it’s impossible to root out the aesthetic of 2D animation.
[Dima meanwhile makes a wonderful little animation and shows it off, with sound effects and everything. Watch it here: 1:06:03]
Alina: [in response to Dima’s animation] We promised you all a master class, after all.
[everyone laughs]
Dima: The reason we chose flash, btw, is because it’s very convenient in this way, to make really quick animation. An animation inside a symbol that you can later use somewhere. Let him walk or march wherever.
Q: Can I also ask about flash? How do you feel about flash animation from other companies, for example the proclaimed ‘gods of flash’ Ankama? And do you think flash animation is still alive or not?
Alina: Well, as you can see it’s pretty lively here. [laughs]
Who were these ‘gods of flash’ by the way? What cartoons did they make?
Q: Wakfu, Dofus, and some other stuff, I don’t really remember.
Dima: I’ve never heard of any of them.
Alina: We live in a cave. [laughs]
Dima: Yeah, we lock ourselves in our house, a vacuum, a black hole. [laughs] Don’t talk to anyone.
Alina: Maybe we’ve seen them but don’t remember the names. We have a better visual memory.
Q: My question is this: when will more friends of the family be revealed? So far we only have Ches, what about the others?
Alina: I keep doing the same thing by asking Dima “should we tell?”. [laughs]
[to Dima] Should we tell them about the 8th episode? [realization] Oh wait, the microphones are on, damn it!
Dima: C’mon, it’s too early. It’ll happen, it’ll happen. We just don’t have the resources and strength to do it faster. Honestly, it could’ve all been revealed in the first episode, if it was like 40 minutes long.
Host: Question from the host: will it have something to do with the channel’s header? [they talk about the artwork on the Youtube’s channel header, with a bunch of characters on it]
Alina: Yup. [laughs]
Dima: Of course.
Host: Great, at least one mystery down.
Q: 2 more questions. The first one is this: since there’s been talk about flash animators, I thought about a certain person who animated his whole cartoon in flash. And that cartoon is the widely known Samurai Jack, made by Genndy Tartakovsky. What are your thoughts on this cartoon?
Dima: [thinking about it] Good animation…
Alina: Yeah, it's a very stylish cartoon. But we’re one of those annoying people who judge all cartoons very critically. If we don’t like the script or characters then that’s all, we can’t even watch it. In the style sense it's all amazing, but the plot sadly didn’t hook us.
I’ll say more: even Avatar didn’t hook us. All of my students keep asking “ALINA, HOW CAN THAT BE?!”, but yeah, we didn’t like the humor at all. That’s why we have a very small set of cartoons that actually appeal to us and that we really watched until the end.
Dima: About Samurai Jack and why I said just “good animation”. I saw how it was created, how people were working on it, and how accurately the storyboards were drawn. [showing on the screen, in flash] For example here’s Jack, he’s putting his arm like this, and then they add arrows here and here, then it will go here… People really put a lot of attention into it so it would look good. In an animation sense it’s really cool.
Alina: They make sure the storyboards are really good before sending them off to animators. I’m pretty sure in something like Steven Universe they don’t do that, since the animation looks worse.
Q: The second question: what type of graphic tablet would you recommend for animation?
Dima: [draws WACOM on the screen] Only Wacom.
Alina: Everything was paid. [laughs]
Dima: They’re honestly the only ones… Well, they really fixated themselves on the market and are the only ones who make truly high quality tablets. Bamboo is fine, but it’s better to get an Intuos, even for the beginning.
Q: Will Ches appear again in the series?
Alina: Of course.
Q: Will you show how he helps grandmas cross the roads?
Alina: [jokingly] Maybe. But it’d be 18+. [laughs]
Q: I have a few questions. You said that you took a 3 month break to make the first 4 episodes. How much of the script was completed at that point? Till the end of the 3rd season?
Dima: All of the seasons were already fully written out.
Alina: We have them all ready. Just like we showed with Contra-Stas, we have every episode outlined, just without animatics yet. But at this point we clearly know the minimum of what we need to do and the core of the story that we need to follow.
Q: So from the very beginning?
Alina: Yes. Until the last episode. We know the last episode in the smallest details.
Q: Also about Glam. I didn’t really think of him as some psychopath, but apparently it turns out he is, and I just didn’t get it?
Alina: No no, he is totally normal. We just know him better. Perhaps in the future he’ll seem like a psycho to you. [laughs]
[The host then thanks everyone for coming, thanks Alina and Dima and ends the conference]
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